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 An elusive coastguard
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| annielew |
Posted on 26/03/2010 21:03
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 New Member  Posts: 6 Joined: 24/03/2010 |
Hello Forum, I'm trying to find some information on my GG Grandfather George Gammon. He joined the RN in 1848 as a boy. In 1856 he was assigned to HMS Hawke a coastguard ship base I think in Cobh then known as Queenstown. There he met and married my GG Grandmother Margaret Thomas. I think they had 3 childrren between 1858 and 1862, the las being my G Grandmother Jane. Jane came to England with her mother and elder sister in 1869, when George had been assigned to HMS Dauntless which was based in the Humber. I could not find George in the British Coastguards list despite him being in the 1871 Census as a Coastguard living in Barton on Humber. Can somebody point me in the right direction, as I don't know where to start. many thanks. |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 27/03/2010 10:07
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 Administrator  Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi, and welcome to the Forum. I'm not sure that any information you find from the CG Establishment or Ships' Books will advance your knowledge over that contained in his Navy Service Record. I checked Dauntless book in ADM 175/37 (page 144 of 335), this confirms that he was stationed at Barton CGS, it also notes that he joined the station from HMS Duke of Wellington on 21 July 1866. At this time the DoW was a seaman training ship at Portsmouth. It is likely that he is also recorded in the next book, which is for Wivern (ADM 175/38). For details of his family your best bet is our Member bpa, who manages to find BDM details for those CG familes stationed in Ireland. I did check the 1881 and 1891 Census and found him, now a Railway Porter, in Cowpen, Northumberland. Where I may be able to provide some information is with regard to any service during the Crimean War. If you can let me know what ships he was serving on between 1854 and 1856, I will check the medal roll to see if he qualified for either the Baltic or Crimea Medals. Regards Martin Edited by crimea1854 on 27/03/2010 10:08 |
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| bpa |
Posted on 27/03/2010 13:15
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Senior Member  Posts: 134 Joined: 11/11/2009 |
There is only a limited set of church based BDM records online for Cork and civil records are just starting for this period and are patchy. The onlline record just covers North & East Cork which is only a small part of Cork's coastline http://corknorthe...mp;set=yes - but it does include records for Cobh. Using the BRSgenealogy - there are two Gammon baptism records whose father is named George both in in Cobh RC. You would need to buy records or vuiew them in NLI to check mother's name. 1858 William George 1860 Mary In the GRO record index there is a marriage recorded in Cork of George Gammon in 1857. There is also a marriage record for Margaret Thomas in Cork in 1857. Assuming that George Gammon was near Cove around 1858-1860 I did a quick look at ADM 175-19 covers 1845-1862. In the Crosshaven pages - there is an entry which looks like George Jensen but it is so unclear perhaps it is Gammon, However other details of the entry don't seem to match Gammon's records so I am dubious. Gammon is an unusual name - so it is interesting to see in Griffiths valuation (around 1850-1860) a Sara Gammon has leased a house in Courtmacsharry. In the 1871 England Census - on the Royal Navy vessel Rinaldo there is a William Gammon age 19 (i.e. born about 1852 ) born in Skull, Cork. In the 1871 England Census there is a entry in 30 Waterside Road, Parish of St. Mary - Barton on Humber, Lincolnshire George Gammon age 36 CoastGuard born Isle of Wight Margaret Gammon age 33 born Queenstown, Ireland Mary age 10 Scholar born Queenstown, Ireland Jane Ann 3 Scholar born Queenstown, Ireland All the Head of Housholds on the same sheet for toher houses on Waterside Roads were Coastguards. Edited by bpa on 27/03/2010 14:59 |
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| annielew |
Posted on 27/03/2010 22:26
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New Member Posts: 6 Joined: 24/03/2010 |
Hello Martin and bpa. Thank you both for your information, which confirms the little I have. The marriage in 1857 is a great find as is the knowledge that he had a son called William. Thank you again. George started his career on HMS Ganges in 1848 transferring to HMS Vestal in 1852 which I believe served the Americas. He transferred to HMS Hawke in 1856 which is when he was sent to Ireland. He then joined HMS Defence and then HMS DoW. He did serve on the Wivern then Invincible, Audacious, Newcastle and finally Endymion, all around the Humber I believe. George applied for his pension in June 1876 which was awarded. His Naval records from the NA show he was awarded a medal but which one I have no idea. He also received 3 good conduct 'badges' whilst in Ireland. His conduct during his time on the Humber is listed as exempliary. He did indeed live in Cowpen Nothumberland where his daughter Jane married and my Grandmother was born in 1896. Why he went to Northumberland is not known. He stayed in Cowpen (he was listed as Jarmon in the 1891 census) until his death in 1908. Many thanks for your help Annie. |
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| bpa |
Posted on 27/03/2010 22:44
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Senior Member Posts: 134 Joined: 11/11/2009 |
You may be able to go back one more generation. The marriage cert may give father's name of Margaret Thomas. The BRSgenealogy has two baptism records for Margaret Thomas 1835 Carrigtwohill RC (fathers name is William) 1825 Cobh RC. (fathers name is John) The 1835 would be the best match in terms of dates and Carrigtwohill is not too far from Cobh/Queenstown so it is not at odds with the 1871 Census entry. The baptism record would also give both parents names and possibly address. Edited by bpa on 28/03/2010 08:47 |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 28/03/2010 07:35
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Annie HMS Vestal took no direct part in the Crimean War, the medal referred to is the RN Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. These were always issued named and may still survive. Regards Martin |
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| annielew |
Posted on 28/03/2010 11:44
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New Member Posts: 6 Joined: 24/03/2010 |
Hello again, and thank you once again for your help. Am I right in thinking that the marriage would be in the GRO records for Ireland? I have no idea what would have happened to George's medals. He had lots of grandchildren and they could have gone down the line to any of them. Your help is greatly appreciated. Regards. Annie. |
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| bpa |
Posted on 28/03/2010 12:18
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Senior Member Posts: 134 Joined: 11/11/2009 |
Yes the GRO has the marriage records In the GRO office, you can only lookup the indexes to the records. When you have found a likely record (e.g. good match for name, date and registration office), you then have to buy it to see all the details. It is a bit hit or miss. See ( http://www.groire...search.htm ) For genealogy purposes you only need to buy a copy of the marriage record and not a copy of the marriage certificate. The indexes have recently become available online via the "record search" of the familysearch.org website ( http://pilot.fami...tml#p=home ) When searching set the location to Ireland (it is very very picky so when it prompt select ireland) and then in the results - filter the collection to Ireland. You will then have records from the GRO indexes . The search mechanism is not very good at surname matches so you might have to try variations. |
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| bpa |
Posted on 29/03/2010 13:08
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Senior Member Posts: 134 Joined: 11/11/2009 |
Are you sure about the HMS Hawke assignment ? I found it curious that I couldn't find an entry for George Gammon in the ADM 175 books I have downloaded. According to Wikipedia (which is not always correct) Hawke was broken up in 1865 and I can't see any Hawke in the Navy List 1867 yet according to the 1871 Census, it implies Jane Gammon was born in 1867/68 in Cork. Wikipedia URL http://en.wikiped...wke_(1820) Navy List [url] http://books.google.ie/books?id=NSEPVObEdZcC&pg=PA&dq=navy+list+1863&hl=en&ei=AZawS4TbKYL-4Aa4vPyzDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Kingstown%20District%22&f=false[/url] Edit: Re-reading the thread - Martin expressed similar doubts about Hawke since George seems to have been assigned to DoW in 1865 Edited by bpa on 29/03/2010 13:36 |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 29/03/2010 14:46
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi bpa HMS Hawke certainly was assigned to the CG at Queenstown in 1856 as a Guardship, remaining on this station until broken-up in 1865. Like you I also checked the Ships Establishment for Hawke in the ADM 175 series and couldn't find George Gammon. However, I suspect that if the actual Ships Muster rolls for this period were checked, Gammon would be listed. I believe the explanation for his abscence from the ADM 175 document is that he was permanently aboard Hawke as a seaman, while this series of documents records only those men serving at land based CG Stations. Martin |
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| annielew |
Posted on 30/03/2010 18:39
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New Member Posts: 6 Joined: 24/03/2010 |
Hello Martin and Bpa. Yes I am sure George was on the Hawke because I have is Naval records as listed at the time of his pension application. I think you are right Martin he is listed as being on the Hawke from 11.12.1856 until 6.12 1861 when he was transferred to HMS Defence. There is somthing written next to his name that looks like L corp of Mast which means nothing to me, so I think he was still classed a s a Navy man at that time. Thank you both for your interest and help with tracking down George's history. Now I'm eager to find out why he joined the Navy in the first place. Regards. Annie |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 31/03/2010 07:58
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Annie I think you will find that the rate you could not read is 'Capt. of Mast'. This is equivalent to the current Petty Officer rate. Then an experienced seaman would be given responsibility for a number of men working in a particular part of the ship, in your case the main mast – hence Captain of the Mast. There were similar rates known as Capt of the Mizen, Capt of the Foretop, Capt of the Hold, Capt of the Forecastle etc. Martin |
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| annielew |
Posted on 31/03/2010 16:02
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New Member Posts: 6 Joined: 24/03/2010 |
Martin, thank you for your explanation. George was also a Cor G of signals, a Bo Mate, and a Com of Boat at later dates. I think I know what these mean now. Thanks again Regards Annie |
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