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 James Hutton
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| linjarvis |
Posted on 13/03/2009 19:58
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 New Member  Posts: 5 Joined: 13/03/2009 |
Can any one help me find out more about my GG Grandfather James Hutton who is listed on the 1851 Census as a Segeant Mounted Guard SGT(not sure what this abbrev stands for) in Hastings - we think its St Marys on the Rock. In 1851 he is on SS Racoon - is this because coastguards were called up because of the Crimean War? Any info you can give us would be gratefully recieved. We are intending to go down to Sussex at Easter - is there anything still around linked to this that might be of interest? Many thanks |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 13/03/2009 21:21
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 Administrator  Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi and welcome to the Forum. I'm afraid I know very little about the Mounted Guard, they are only mentioned in two of the CG Establishment Books. From these it would appear that the Mounted Guard were drawn from men from the army (Dragoons seem to be quite common), and in some instances the Metropolitan Police. I have found just two references to James. The first was in ADM 175/6 (page 712 of 779), where he appears to have entered the Mounted Guard at Hastings on the 18 August 1832, joining from London. His weight is given as 11st 6lbs, and he subsequently appears to have been posted to Fairlight. The next reference was in ADM 175/7 (page 733 of 792) at Fairlight, where he was Discharged Dead (D.D) on the 11 November 1853, having committed suicide. I would suggest that perhaps you should check the Army records in the National Archives online catalogue to see if you can find any early service career. On the 'SGT' this is just the standard abbreviation for Sergeant. Why, in 1851 he is on the SS Racoon, I have no idea. There was no RN ship of this name at this date, and the 'SS' would seem to imply a merchant ship. Finally the Crimea War did not start until 1854 and was over, as far as he navy was concerned, by 1855. Hope some of this is of help. Regards Martin Edited by crimea1854 on 14/03/2009 19:31 |
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| linjarvis |
Posted on 14/03/2009 12:30
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New Member Posts: 5 Joined: 13/03/2009 |
Thank you so much for this. It helps to make sense of the next references for his wife and younger children being a settlement examination and then his children subsequently appearing in the workhouse on the next census. The price of a suicide in the 19th century! Sorry about the confusing reference to the SS Racoon - that's his oldest son who appears to have joined the RN in 1869 so perhaps he was in the Merchant Navy before that. Could I be really cheeky and ask if you have any idea where in London he joined the Mounted Guard as he is appearing quite elusive having been born in Scotaland where there are loads of James Hutton's. Any clues would be really helpful. |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 14/03/2009 14:52
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Sorry I cannot be more helpful, all the record states is that he was nominated for the Mounted Guard (also known as Riding Officers) from London, and no other details are provided. On the issue of his son's RN service, if you have not done so already, you can download his service record from the National Archives - link below - always assuming I have the right man! http://www.nation...ltcount=17 Regards Martin Edited by crimea1854 on 14/03/2009 14:55 |
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| linjarvis |
Posted on 14/03/2009 16:09
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New Member Posts: 5 Joined: 13/03/2009 |
Thank you Martin. You are wonderfully patient with a newbie! Yes I have already been to that record. It mentions Branksea and Poole Harbour in addition to the ships Excellent and Warrior. Do you know if there was a coastguard station on Branksea and Poole Harbour around 1875-80 because we haven't been able to work out what that might be referring to? He did settle in Poole after this point and the rest of us have been here since and this might help to explain the move from his birthplace of Hastings via Portsea at one point (which we have assumed is due to the RN) Regards Lin |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 14/03/2009 18:34
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Lin Since my last post I have been doing a little more digging, and after looking at the Nominations Book discovered that James Snr, together with about 12 other men, were all nominated in London on the same day. Written in one of the columns against all these men, in pencil, was 'Cavalry Dragoons'; so I'm more than ever convinced that he was in the army prior to joining the Mounted Guard. Typically for the next two men it actually gives the Regiment they came from (8th Hussars)! Perhaps it would be worth trying to find out what Dragoon Regts were in England in 1832, and then trawl through their muster books. According to the Times, both the 3rd and 14th Dragoons were in London in 1832, being used to quell a riot, so this could be a starting point. For James Jnr I can confirm that he was in the CG at Branksea, joining the Station on 17 June 1875. A note below his Official Number (51556) indicates '1.1.69 to complete', which suggests that his time in the CG Service was to complete his service to the end of his Continuous Service term. The record also shows that he had two Good Conduct Badges, was a Trained Man and was ranked as a CPO. Unfortunately there is a gap in the records from this date until the early 1900's, and it is not possible to take his service back further, but he was certainly still at Branksea in 1877. Regards Martin P.S. HMS Excellent was the navy's gunnery school. Edited by crimea1854 on 14/03/2009 19:29 |
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| linjarvis |
Posted on 15/03/2009 10:27
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New Member Posts: 5 Joined: 13/03/2009 |
Thank you AGAIN, Martin. In terms of James snr it looks like the 1st Regiment of Royal Dragoons or at least that's what his wife told the authorities when applying for poor relief. So we are beginning to get a sense of what was happening particualrly with the bit about being in London to quell a riot. I had worked out from this site that metro police were being recruited to the CG aorund this point but didn't know about the Army. James jnr info is also really interesting and now helps us understand how the family came to settle in Poole (which is a real advantage as we are now off to Poole Museum to see what more we can learn). The other thing I have learned from beginning this search is how kind and helpful people in this 'hobby' are - living in Poole if there is anything we can ever do to help youand repay your work on our behalf please don't hesitate to let us know. Many thanks again Lin Lin |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 16/03/2009 15:09
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Lin I'm a member of the National Maritime Museum Library, and in a blog email today, I was sent details of Non-Parochial BDMs' now available online. After trying a search for my own ancestors I entered 'James Hutton' into the search engine and came up with a result for a burial, in Sussex, in 1853 - maybe just a coincidence, but who knows. http://www.bmdreg...1&st=s This a pay to view site, but it might be worth a look. Regards Martin |
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| linjarvis |
Posted on 16/03/2009 19:34
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New Member Posts: 5 Joined: 13/03/2009 |
It all fits - he died 11th nov and this has him being buried on 18th! Thank you again Lin |
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| Len |
Posted on 20/06/2009 13:05
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New Member Posts: 1 Joined: 20/06/2009 |
Hi Lin Have sent you a pm Regards Len |
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