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 Robert Watson - Coast Guard? 1860's
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| irish79 |
Posted on 24/07/2010 01:57
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 New Member  Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
Hello, I am new to this site and was very happy to see a forum dedicated to Irish Coast Guard history. I am researching my family history and think I might have found a Coast Guard connection. My 2nd Great grandfather is James William Watson b. 1865 Castletownbere, Cork, Ireland. In the Marriage register his father is noted as Robert Watson and his father’s occupation as "Officer of Signal Station". I did a search for the 1901 Census for Robert Watson and found a Robert Watson (at Crosshaven Hill (Templebrady, Cork)) who is listed as "Pensioner Naval". I am not 100% sure this Robert Waston on the 1901 census is the same as my 3rd Great grandfather but it is very possible. From here I found a record at the National Archive, London in the series ADM/188/68 which is the naval record for Robert Watson, born 1835 at Castletown, Cork. On the record (which is hard to read) it lists several items dating from 1877 to 1885 (all with the remark "C.Guard". The last location I can read is Crosshaven. Also, is remarked "medal 24.2.83". What I am trying to confirm or learn more about is if this all sounds like it ties to the same person (is "Officer of Signal Station" a coast guard reference?). Any way to learn more about Robert Waton? Is it ok to upload an image of the ADm record for help understanding what it says? Thoughts? Thank you, David |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 24/07/2010 08:40
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 Administrator  Posts: 905 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Welcome to the Forum David. I'm not convinced that the record you have for Robert Watson is your Robert. I say this because this record should show him serving in the Castletown area in 1865, always assuming he was in the CG service when James was born. Coming at this from a different angle I checked the CG records in ADM 175 to see if there was a Robert Watson serving in the Castletown area in the 1860's - this threw up a possible. There was a Robert Watson transferred to Castletown from Cahimore on 12 August 1863. Tracing his career back, using the ADM 175 records, this man originally entered the CG service from HMS Hogue on 27 March 1857 (Nom. No. 4848), with a first posting to Costello Bay. Frustratingly I have not been able to find him in the post 1863 records, which is a pity, because these normally provide a date and place of birth. However, if at the National Archives, Kew, you were to check Hogue's Description Book (ADM 38/8301) this would provide a place of birth, age and details of his previous RN service; but there is a chance that this still may not be your man. What we need is a birth certificate for James, or details of a Baptism with his fathers occupation on it. Martin |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 24/07/2010 13:32
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Administrator Posts: 905 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi again David I think I’m going to have to reconsider my original scepticism regarding your man. I have now managed to find my Robert Watson in the later records. These give his place of birth as Bear Island, Cork, in 1835, so perhaps it is one and the same man. Having looked at the Seaman’s Service Records on the NA website, the record you have is from the ADM 188 series, which only start from 1873, so it would not possibly list where he was in 1865! If you look in the top left-hand corner of this record, there may be a CS (Continuous Service) number that refers back to a previous service record. What I have managed to find is that Robert was transferred from Cahimore in the Castletown District to Dunny Cove, Kinsale, on 21 May 1871. Unfortunately when I tried to download both ADM 175/44 and 45 to try and trace him further, I had a problem with the NA site. Martin PS: I have now managed to download 175/45, and I can definitely confirm that it is one and the same man, because this record has his Official Number (ON 78002), which matches the record you have. Got there in the end 
Edited by crimea1854 on 24/07/2010 13:56 |
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| irish79 |
Posted on 24/07/2010 14:10
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New Member Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
Thank you for all this information and research. I am going to request the birth register for James next week...it will take a few weeks for it to come in. That will help confirm his profession at that time. So was I correct to associate the occupation "Officer of Signal Station" with the Coast Guard? Unfortunatly Robert Howe is not an uncommon name but knowing the location and profession at the time of his sons birth should narrow it down and tie to the service record to provide confirmation that it is correct. Do you know what kind of medal might have been awarded in 1883? In the top left hand corner there is nothing under the section "Date and Period of C.S. Engagement". The first item on his record just prior to 1877 it says "Vanguard C.C. (List 106, No 16 and then a note in () but its to light to read. Once again thank you. |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 24/07/2010 14:34
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Administrator Posts: 905 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
David I suspected that there would not be a CS number, because the pre 1873 CG records would normally include this in the margin against the mans name. You have to understand that prior to 1873 a seaman did not have to sign up for Continuous Service, so would not necessarily have a CS number. The medal referred too is almost certainly the RN Long Service & Good Conduct Medal - these were always issued named. Just for the sake of completeness, Robert transferred from Costello Bay to Dunbeacon (Dunmanus) on 20 November 1858, and from there to Cahimore (Black Ball, Garnish) on 22 June 1863. Martin |
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| irish79 |
Posted on 14/08/2010 05:40
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New Member Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
Hello agaiin. I have finally received the Birth register entry for his son James William. This list Robert Watson as being in Castletown in 1865 and his professionm as "Coast Guard". So from your earlier post I gather the only way to trace his RN career would be from the Hogue's Description Book (ADM 38/8301)...do you know if that is assessable online? thx. |
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| irish79 |
Posted on 14/08/2010 05:42
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New Member Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
Another qq...which subsection of ADM 175 should I look at to find his entry for castletown from the 1860's. Thx |
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| irish79 |
Posted on 14/08/2010 05:52
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New Member Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
I see that the web page allows me to order the document...do you have any recommendations on how I ask for this so that they do not come back saying the they can not search the document. Are these typically a lot of pages, should I ask for all pages or as for specific pages? Thank you for your help. |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 14/08/2010 08:00
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Administrator Posts: 905 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi I understand that the National Archives will now only do a limited search of documents. The problem you have is that the Description Books are not arranged alphabeticaly, and in most instances are not indexed, so to quickly find a man you would need his Muster (Ships) number. Without this its a case of going through the entire book page by page, and with a ship the size of Houge this may mean in excess of a 1000 men! You can ask the NA, but I suspect you will get a quote for copying the whole book. Unfortunately I did not keep a record of the ADM 175 where I found Robert in the 1860's. What I would do is, using the ADM Index in the Articles section of the site, trace his steps from say Cahimore in 1863. This will also entail downloading the Ships Establishment Books which are indexed by the mans name in each book. Martin |
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| irish79 |
Posted on 17/08/2010 23:52
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New Member Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
thank you for all your help. |
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| irish79 |
Posted on 20/06/2015 16:21
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New Member Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
I know this is an old post. I recently discovered that someone sent me a private message back in 2013 stating that they are also related to Robert Watson. Unfortunately, I did not see if till now. It was a new user who looks to have only joined the forum to send me the message. (user: oileanach). I have sent a private message back but with no luck. Any ideas how I might contact this person. Thx. D |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 20/06/2015 21:24
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Administrator Posts: 905 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi I've sent a message to oileanach using their private email address in the hope that this will be picked-up. Re Robert, the ADM 29 records of service are now available on Find my Past, where I found one for Robert. This has his first entry as a Boy 2nd Class on HMS Crocodile on 24 Jan 1850, he subsequently served on Ajax, Impregnable and Trident before joining HMS Hogue. Martin PS I meant Ancestry - it's an age thing!! Edited by crimea1854 on 21/06/2015 14:55 |
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| irish79 |
Posted on 21/06/2015 14:15
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New Member Posts: 9 Joined: 24/07/2010 |
Thank you very much Martin. BTW. ADM29 is also available on Ancestry.co.uk |
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